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Mock exams are a new thing RELATIVELY speaking – I did them for my LC, but not for my Inter, for example. The current school system has been in existence practically since the foundation of the state (ie the idea of JC / LC etc) & the ‘free’ education system has been in place for over 50 years & initially many schools did not even provide the LC, never mind the mock exams.
Some schools still don’t do them & no school has to do them.
Officially the JC is the trial exam for the LC – if you follow me!!!!
Again there is NEVER a charge if the pupils’ own teachers are correcting the exam – but the situation varies crazily from school to school & even within schools. Charges only ever apply if mocks are being corrected by outsiders. (Sometimes this charge also covers the cost of externally set exam papers as well, but that’s another issue…)
Certainly, I agree, that schools would have some job justifying introducing external correctors in the current economic climate, but school managements – as I understand it – are simply NOT in a position to unilaterally insist that teachers within a school correct the mocks, especially if this has not been the practice for some years. It would be considered a change in working conditions, or some such lark
Just to demonstrate what I’m trying to explain: some subjects are more ‘correction intensive’ than others. English – one of my subjects is one of those….
If I have a class of 32 Honours English LC pupils (as is often the case), each sitting 2 papers in the mocks, that’s a total of 64 papers. If each paper is approx 20 pages (presuming a relatively strong class of pupils) & I spend no more than 3 min on each page, that’s 64 hours of corrections. (Now that is an absolute bare minimum) I’m also the only German teacher in the school & could have an Honours German & Ordinary Level set of LC German papers to correct as well as JC ones (& I could possibly have a JC English class as well). The hours mount up. You could easily spend 120 hours on mock corrections. You can’t correct them while the pupils are sitting the mock exams because you are supervising the exams. Now 120 hours is about three solid weeks of work on top of your normal work. Human nature being what it is, if this is not part of a work contract, how many people would volunteer to do it for nothing?
So from a management point of view, to suddenly insist – in a school where exam papers have been corrected externally for years – that teachers do it for free, well …. you’re looking at an uprising…. And back, to what I was saying originally, the demand for externally corrected papers came originally – as far as I’m aware – from parents who had doubts about the accuracy of the results obtained by their children when those exams were corrected internally.
Again, I’m just trying to explain the situation, rather than justify it!
To be honest, a national debate should probably focus on why ‘free’ education is not actually ‘free’ at all – rather than on what is essentially a smaller issue which only affects some pupils some of the time
I think part of the difficulty is that individual parents only encounter the JC / LC – and all that go with them – relatively seldomly. (In the sense that their child only does each exam once in what could possibly be a 13 to 16 year stint in the education system). As such, what to a teacher is ‘normal’ carry on (in that I see it every year for pushing 20 years – I do LC & JC every year!), can seem unusual.
Again, I’m not defending the practice, just trying to explain it.
The whole concept of ‘free’ education really needs to be looked at again. Schools need to be properly funded etc etc. & there is lots of stuff in the education system which is totally nuts & needs radical alteration.
To give a couple of examples (And I’m open to correction here….):
As I understand the system at the moment, if a primary school has more than 100 pupils, it is entitled to a permanent, full time Special Needs teacher regardless of how many pupils with special needs are in the school. At second level, a school with 499 pupils is entitles to 12 hours of Learning Support – even if this is a boys’ school (statistically boys are far more likely to have every kind of Learning Disability…..) Now does that make sense????
Also, if teacher has a part-time position in a second level school for 3 years, they automatically become entitled to the next permanent post which becomes available. In practice this means that if a school has a part-time art teacher, & a permanent science or woodwork teacher retires, or moves school, they cannot appoint a permanent science or woodwork teacher until the art teacher is given a permanent full-time post by the DES. This basically doesn’t happen, so effectively the school can’t offer permanent posts in science or woodwork & this results in huge staff turnover from year to year which is detrimental to pupils in the long run.
In some schools systems exist which mean that if your child scores poorly in Maths in, for example, an entrance exam, that they automatically have to do ordinary levelMaths AND Irish AND English – even if they attended a Gaelscoil & are brilliant at English….
I’m just trying to broaden the debate & make parents aware that there are many issues in the education system which are in radical need of reform & – irritating as it may be – paying or not paying for mocks is way down the list
I definitely think its time to question the politicans that are calling to our doors about our so called "free" education. As we all know it doesnt really exist.
I kind of understand why the exams are sent out of the school to be corrected because maybe its seen to be fairer to pupils.
I did mocks for my intercer 1987 and leaving cert 1989 in the same school my daughter goes to…but we never paid. The teacher corrected the papers, just another test really. But it was to give us a trial run at the experience of sitting down to do a long test and how that would feel as well as getting a rough idea on marks. In all honesty my marks on the mocks were way off on the final marks eg. french,honours leaving mocks got a D, the real thing got a B! Thats over 23yrs ago…so around a long time in my opinion.
I just feel that given the current climate its another payment parents, like myself, can do without. I am buying so much for school. The revision papers ‘Shortcuts to Success’ for e most subjects, which my daughter thinks are a great help to study, along with buying past exam papers to practice questions.
And this is only for one child….the other children have to ‘get’ also but an exam year is so much more expensive. Maybe we feel it more because unfortunately our income has gone way down with unemployment, but I still feel our children should be able to get a good chance at education. I firmly believe children who have a good start in education, will go on to college and hopefully have a job they enjoy in the future.
You’re my vintage then, Mummy5! Maturing like a fine wine!
My comments are merely to explain how things have come to the current situation. I agree entirely – free education should be free & fair. As someone once said, a good education &good teeth are all we owe our kids!
And I can identify with the reduced income. Hubby had no income at all for nearly eight months last year & bits & pieces since & my salary & child benefit have also been hit.
Havent read half the post so forgive if i missed anything…. im a vintage too, did my mocks in intercert in 88 and leaving in 90 (yes during the famous world cup Itaila 90)
I do think in the current climate its alot to ask, jeez people are on there uppers and trying to keep afloat, paying for exam papers and exam fees is enough, it never ends.
Pookie just for the record i know a few teachers and i think you guy should get a medal for the job you have to do…. its not like years ago
Agree Taylor5. I hear the stories from school and its a hard job for secondary school teachers alright. You are there for all the children, not just the easy to teach and well behaved kids…..I admire any secondary school teacher…good ones are worth their weight in gold. I have seen my daughters develop their love of English for example and Music with the help of excellent, committed teachers 😀
I do respect teachers and the job they do, your right mummy5 when you have a teacher with passion its easier to learn then some grumpy faced yoke just passing their time to their pension day!
I just think if marking the mocks was done free before this, you can understand the teachers not doing it for free now! What with health levy, pay cuts and now the USC…. you would feel like saying your not doing a minute more then your contract says!
I know times are hard and it just seems to be one thing after another for some families, im sure some are being his with 2 kids doing exams….. its a joke! FREE EDUCATION IN IRELAND!!!!
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