what is consistent poverty in Ireland…interesting.

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  • #13035
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    firstly i know many good, decent and hardworking if given the chance families who are now relying on social welfare. There are genuine people claiming genuine support at a difficult time in their lives. In good times, when there was good employment opportunities out there, some people would still choose not to work and stay on benefits, regardless…..thats a lifestyle choice. Its very hard for people to talk about the fact they are now on benefits as there is still a perception out there that if you looked hard enough you’ll find a job….look at the jobless and emigration figures to know this is not true like it used to be.

    Regarding no incentive to get back to work I heard about a man who did a bit of work as a polling officer when the elections were on……fast forward and he applies for a community employment scheme months down the road when he is still unemployed….but he doesn’t qualify as he ‘broke’ his 15mth unemployment by taking a days work. this is silly. People also have to be 15mths unemployed to get any fuel allowance help etc. so people who take even one days work break that record, go back to square one and face a winter with less help because they tried to help themselves by taking a day work here and there. thats a very silly system that has to change immediately. Again, people who aremaking a choice to stay on welfare get all these extra benefits if they never work a day, but people who are used to working, find themselves unemployed and take work whenever it comes up, even for a day, loose out in a big way. Decent people punished again by a crazy welfare system.

    #117078
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    http://www.socialinclusion.ie/poverty.html

    taken from the above website.

    What is Consistent Poverty?
    The official Government approved poverty measure used in Ireland is consistent poverty, developed independently by the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI). This measure identifies the proportion of people, from those with an income below a certain threshold (less than 60% of median income), who are deprived of two or more goods or services considered essential for a basic standard of living.

    The consistent poverty measure was devised in 1987 using indicators of deprivation based on standards of living at that time. The Government in 2007 accepted the advice of the ESRI to revise the deprivation indicators to better reflect current living standards and, in particular, to focus to a greater degree on items reflecting social inclusion and participation in society. This resulted in the measure, originally based on lacking one or more items from an 8-item index, changing to one based on lacking two or more items from the following 11-item index:

    1. Two pairs of strong shoes
    2. A warm waterproof overcoat
    3. Buy new not second-hand clothes
    4. Eat meals with meat, chicken, fish (or vegetarian equivalent) every second day
    5. Have a roast joint or its equivalent once a week
    6. Had to go without heating during the last year through lack of money
    7. Keep the home adequately warm
    8. Buy presents for family or friends at least once a year
    9. Replace any worn out furniture
    10. Have family or friends for a drink or meal once a month
    11. Have a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight, for entertainment

    This revised set of deprivation indicators will be used to measure consistent poverty over the duration of the new NAPinclusion. The current (2006) rate of consistent poverty using the new measure is 6.5%, having reduced from 8.2% in 2003.

    #117112
    happymumblemum
    Participant

    Interesting reading 😯

    Replacing worn out furniture 😯 joint once or twice a week. brand new clothes .my god i am living in poverty 😯 😯

    #117118
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Sadly, far too many people tick boxes on this list…..so in theory the government know what we would like to attain to but in practice we’re so far away from it still. ‘Consistent poverty’ conjures up images but yet going by this criteria many people are living in consistent poverty.

    #117119
    Jedt
    Keymaster

    That is a shocking post.

    Just reading down some of them is very thought provoking. The one about having people for dinner/drinks once a month…does not happen here anymore. Really makes you think….

    #117132
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    similar and equally interesting is this report ‘All you need is…measuring childrens perceptions and experiences of depravation’. It gives a 12 point measure that is more child centered than the 11 point standard used to determine consistent poverty.

    http://www.barnardos.ie/assets/files/Ad … eed-Is.pdf


    The report demonstrates that children very clearly understand what is meant by necessities as there was strong consensus between children and parents about which items were essential for children. The 12 item child-specific deprivation index is very child centred and has a focus on participation. The items in the index capture the voice of the child and highlight what children deem to be essential to guarantee an acceptable standard of living during childhood.

    The indicators are:
    Three balanced meals each day with fruit / vegetables and meat / fish
    Enough of the right clothes for different seasons, e.g. a coat to keep warm and dry in winter
    Separate bed and bedding of their own
    Their own books for reading for fun
    Food and drinks for friends when they call over to play
    Own money for school activities or days out
    A family holiday once a year (can be in Ireland or abroad)
    Day out with family at least twice a year (e.g. go to beach, fun fair, leisure centres)
    Visit to a restaurant for a family meal at least twice a year
    A bank, post office or Credit Union account to save money
    Shops close to home (e.g. food shops, clothes shops or chemist)
    A trip to the library

    #117307
    pookie2
    Member

    Am relieved. My kids should do ok according to this list, but the first one …. Janey. I’d tick a lot of those boxes, but am not, & would not consider myself, to be living in poverty.

    Hand-me down clothes from cousins or older siblings etc are common here – it jut makes practical sense
    No big hunks of meat – not healthy
    Worn out furniture is replaced when it is BROKEN – not realistic
    Family or friends over for a drink once a month – alas….. – but some day, when the kids are older…..
    A morning, afternoon, or evening for entetainment – does a p.m. trip to Lidl count?

    That said, I can buy the kids what my Gran would call ‘stout’ shoes & heat the house & make sure they are no hungry – so I’m happy….

    #117313
    Taylor5
    Member

    Shocking reading…. i could tick a few of those boxes, dh and i never get to go out for meals together, we have to settle for a chinese and x-factor when the kids are gone to bed!!

    I do the hand me down clothes here too…. they are from their cousins and like wise i pass all ds2’s stuff to their youngest cousin.

    I would do a roast once a week and would have fish or meat everyday, i have stopped buying brand names (other then flora and coke for dh) its Aldi all the way.

    I pay my bills and have a warm houses and put meals on the table and some treats, but i do know some people when after their food shop they have 1 or 2 euros left to last the WHOLE week…. I was floored when someone told me this!!! Half the country is living in poverty and i know its the grannies and grandads who are helping families out with household bills….. the boom years are just a memory at this stage

    #117337
    soccermum
    Member

    I have to be honest and say this does not surprise me. We have all recently heard and read about the generous social welfare system we have here and how people are better off on social welfare than actually out working. So if this list, complied by the government is anything to go by it is no wonder the average working family are living in poverty. They dont recieve the fuel grants, free medical care or have a community welfare officer they can call on to give them a dig out as someone already said the working family are relying on their parents to see them through.

    Finally I have to say regarding the list it is complied by people who are very far removed from the reality of life in Ireland. But, unfortunately it will be used as tool by some people to squeeze even more money out the social welfare system.

    #117345
    Taylor5
    Member

    I do think what your saying is very true, even if it may annoy some to read it… its feels like the same people "milking" the system year in year out. I do know a few people who are on the breadline on SW and find it really really hard to keep going as their lifestyle/bills would have been based with a wage coming into the house, when that dries up then all sorts of trouble starts. I find these people dont get as much help as they should, its the people who HAVE NEVER HAD A JOB IN THEIR LIVES and have been on SW from the day they left school….

    I have spoken to a woman in recent times she like myself suffers from depression and she (was on illness benefit) was told she is fit to return to work, this person is on alot of meds and has many many bad days and is not fit to return to work. Its heartbreaking too hear stories like this, when there are people who have been on SW for Decades

    Its a 3 Tier culture we live in
    1) the fat cats at the top that are so well off they dont even know there is a recession.
    2) The PAYE worker who carries the can with higher taxes and USC charges etc.
    3) The families/areas where people have been on SW all their lives, never had a job and never wanted a job!!!

    #117414
    pookie2
    Member

    Yip – did up the sums a while back & – shocking as it may seem – my family would be better off if I stopped working (at least for the next few years). By the time childcare (3 under 5), running a car to get to work, doctors bills & VHI (as no medical cards) are added up…. well, as it stands I’m just over the eligibility criteria for just about everything… I’m sticking it out for the moment – the kids won’t be little for ever & there might be a pension at the end of it, & I’ve never NOT worked, but with four uni qualifications on wall, it makes me wonder hat the point of it all was…..

    #117096
    Taylor5
    Member

    Pookie thats terrible, all that hard work over the years and someone on the dole is better off or equal standard of living when your living cost are taken into account.

    People say SW rates are too high, i dont think thats the case, i just think the cost of living in Ireland is too high, health ins, car cost etc…. if things were a bit cheaper then people would see bigger benefits between working and the dole.

    #117428
    soccermum
    Member

    I know my comment was slighty contraversial and probably did hit a nerve with some people but it is a total disgrace that anyone regardless of their qualifications should find themselves facing into this problem. Taylor i do empathise with people who suffer with mental issues, I work in this area myself and know the stigma that can be attached to depression and how hard it is to regain employment after longterm illness. But I am referrring to people in general who have worked and now find themselvesunfortunately on social welfare but refuse to give up the lifestyle they had previous to losing the work. All the loopholes for people who have never worked and those who defraud the system by claiming lone parent benefits while living with a partner and so on need to be closed. A payment given to people thta slides downwards so it gives an incentive for people to return to work.

    #117429
    noeleenw
    Member

    ok . might get slated for this but i am self employed , work 7 days a week.. pay tax etc … have 3 kids, one that had exceptional medical care over the years, has gotten grommets in twice and has suffered convulsions.. she has also been given the totally wrong meds by a chemist which triggered the convulsions…i hte hate sitting in the doctors waiting room knowing i am one of the fools payinf €45 a visit and then more in the chemist while mary next door is claiming opfa and living with her partner and paying nothing.. there have been weeks when dd has gone to doc 3 times , i am not made of money and why should my neighbour pay nothing while i have to ask my parents for a lend to cover the cost

    #117433
    Cathmc
    Member

    I do agree that some people are milking the system, but a lot of people do not want to be on benefits. It must be so hard for them. Unemployment plays havoc with your mental health and self esteem. According to Thursdays Examiner, research from the ESRI has shown that only 3% of unemployed people would have more money if they continued to claim social welfare than rejoining the workforce.

    Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/on … z1aqjCV032

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